The Untapped Influence of Women in Car Buying and Why This Matters with Katie Mares

Kat: 0:01

Hey, it's Kathleen and Shannon here, and this is Get In Her Lane.

Shan: 0:05

We are two automotive professionals diving deep into why women are so underrepresented in this industry and trying to make a positive change.

Kat: 0:12

So right along with us as we discuss ideas and takeaways that can help everyone further this effort in the automotive world and beyond. Hey Shannon, and welcome back everyone to another episode of Get In Her Lane, hey Kathleen.

Shan: 0:26

Yes, we are back. You know, we have just really been on a roll with these amazing guests. I know I personally am still thinking about our conversation with Susan Elkington from last episode and just what a role model that she is.

Kat: 0:41

Absolutely she is. Susan shared a bit of her incredible journey with us on the last episode her ups and downs, her successes and even those moments of self-doubt in her early career. It was super, super refreshing to hear that Susan, just like the rest of us, had to work at building up her confidence.

Shan: 0:59

Yes, and my favorite part that I have actually been trying to incorporate into my day today is her Q-tip motto quit taking it personally, and I will just say that is easier said than done.

Kat: 1:12

It is actually a lot harder than you would think, and today's guest is going to shed a little bit of light on why, biologically, that happens.

Shan: 1:21

Ooh, we love some science on this podcast. Who are we talking to today, Kathleen? So?

Kat: 1:26

today we're going to be talking to Katie Mares, who is a brand experience expert specializing in helping organizations create customer experiences to target female consumers. So Katie actually bases a lot of her advice in the science of how women operate and what they respond to when doing business.

Shan: 1:47

Yes, katie is just such a subject matter expert and actually she's going to also be sharing some stories with us from her book Custom Her Experience, which is just such a cute title Custom Her Experience, which is a masterclass on everything customer experience related and why that's becoming more important to our industry as it's more and more shaped by these female customers.

Kat: 2:12

Yep, completely, and that is why I'm so excited to dive into this topic today. Shannon, did you know we got a little fact here. Did you know that women influence 85% of all car buying decisions in the US alone? That?

Shan: 2:26

is staggering, you know, I did not know that, but just look at us go.

Kat: 2:31

What this means is, if you're a dealership, ignoring or underestimating the female preference can result in definitely a substantial loss of potential customers. Women are making choices that shape the design, the features, the marketing of the cars we see on the road today, so designing a customer experience that is inclusive for them is so, so important.

Shan: 2:52

Completely. And now that we've set the stage a little bit for why this is so important, let's dive into our conversation, as Katie talks to us today about the things females need from the experience, and she's actually going to get specific with us on what dealerships can do to meet those needs. So, without further ado, let's dive in.

Kat: 3:12

So, katie, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what inspired you to focus on being a brand expert, and maybe highlight the work you're most proud of?

Katie: 3:22

Yeah, where do I start here? Whenever I'm on stage in the automotive space or in the industry, I always say I've never sold a car, I've never worked in a dealership, but I am a customer and I'm also a customer experience expert. And so what got me into the space is a really crappy car buying experience, which got me sort of digging down a rabbit hole of why the heck do we have an experience like this for the second largest purchase we make in our entire lives? I mean, unless you're really well to do, it's a home and a car. Well, maybe a boat if you need more money, but otherwise it's a home car right. So I had a really awful experience a few years back and I went to seven different dealerships. It's actually the opening story in my book and it was just. I couldn't believe what I was being handed. So first it was I went in with my kids and I was ignored and asked where my husband was. Second dealership is are you old enough to buy a car? I mean, I don't wear makeup and I'll walk in and my hugs and my hair in a bun. So nobody took me seriously. Is your dad coming? Yeah, yeah, and the husband question. And so finally I got to a dealership that treated me like a human and I couldn't believe I couldn't give my money away. I ended up saving money because I went with a brand that I didn't think I was going to go with. So I went with Hyundai and I wanted a high-end brand. I was ready to spend upwards of $70,000, $80,000. I ended up spending $40,000. So win-win for me, I guess. But it was the experience. They treated me like a human. They treated my kids with respect. They gave me an experience where my kids were taken care of so I could actually purchase the vehicle without having to worry about their little fingers being slammed at the car door. But what that did for me is previous to the automotive space. Where I kind of found my little niche was I've worked with hospitals. I've worked so I built Canada's first online educational platform for the dental industry. I worked in hospitals with patient experience. I've worked in hospitality. I don't know if you guys have heard of Celebrity Cruises it's just a little cruise line, but I designed their guest experience and I actually traveled for three years on board of their ships and trained their team members. So I come from a customer experience background and I mean, even if you were to ask my kids, my whole entire life I love making moments special for people, whether it's my kids or my friends or anybody. I like those little moments to shine, to break the script of life. And so it was an obvious alarm, sounding lights blaring and blinking opportunity with the automotive space. Because it is really quite sad that even like I was out speaking at a conference last week and there's quite a few women in the automotive space that came into the conference and she or they there was a couple of them told me that they still have awful experiences and then there was somebody overhearing and they didn't work in the automotive space. They're like I know I just had that experience. And then they read the intro of my book and they pull me aside and be like it's still happening. So, unfortunately, there is so much work to be done and that's what inspired the book, that's what inspired my research. Females we influence $43 trillion of worldwide spending.

Kat: 6:44

Yeah, that's a huge number.

Katie: 6:46

Huge. And in the automotive space it's not just that, you know when, in a coupled relationship, 86% of those decisions are made by women and we actually out-purchase men in new car vehicles 65%. So it's just the alarms, as I said lights blinking, alarms blaring. It's really time to show up and create an experience, not just for her, for the man too, but an experience in general. And unfortunately, just as recent as last week, I'm still finding those experiences in a place like Texas, which is one of the largest car markets in the world, is still not delivering those experiences. So that's how I got into the industry, that's why I wrote the book, because women deserve an experience they can't live without.

Shan: 7:31

It's really cool to hear that you had that experience. That was, I think it's safe to say, less than stellar. And then you were like no, but I want to make my impact on this industry versus like I have. So many people I'm sure would have that experience and be like you know what, I'm not going to buy another car for a while, I'm not going back, but you're like no, I can avoid this for 20 years. Yeah, exactly. So that's so cool. So with that, I know it's obviously you touched a little bit on the buying power piece. But specifically in the retail world, like what does that look like when you say, when we talk about a woman's purchasing power in the automotive space, she's the decision maker? What can our industry do better for tailoring these interactions for her? Everything?

Katie: 8:19

You know, it's just, it's like to put it, it's quite simple, that's the thing. It's low hanging fruit, like the industry can't get any more and like we can't do any worse. And so even just acknowledging her when she's in a coupled relationship, that's it. Shake her hand, acknowledge her, like that simple step will all of a sudden, you know, break down those walls that we put up, those barriers, those I don't trust yous. If you just acknowledge her, that's like one simple step. I did a, you know, many years ago, I guess three or four years ago, I did a survey and I surveyed a whole bunch of random women online about their car shopping experience and 98% of them went in with a man because they didn't want to go in by themselves. And then, of that 98%, 90% of them said the man was greeted first. Yeah, so a very simple thing that we can do to make her feel important in that experience or in that, you know, customer journey, is just acknowledge her. Don't just shake the man's hand, don't just ask him the questions, make it equal, or if I were them, I'd lean it a little more on her side. But that's one simple little thing that they can, that everybody can do, and it doesn't take effort, it's you're feeding anyways, right?

Shan: 9:41

So just make her part of the equation and a lot of what I know you focus on. Is the science part of that and I know that's something like Kathleen and I could geek out on forever Just like what's happening in the body that explains all of this. Could you dive a little bit, like so, like that interaction where the woman is greeted first, like based off research, what is that doing to improve that interaction?

Katie: 10:03

Not just you know it's polite- First of all, knowing that I was going into an automotive space as a woman, so male-dominated space as a woman, I knew I couldn't be a woman just saying women are awesome, right, because we hear that all the time. I couldn't just be that another woman that was going to get on a stage or point my finger at these men saying you need to be better. So I needed something to back it up in order for men to take me seriously and women too, by the way, because a lot of women in the automotive space, unfortunately, they've had to change who they are. They've had to reflect more male traits. So when a woman comes into the space, all of a sudden they're back, they stand up a little straighter and they're a little more protective. Those walls go up. So the science was really important to me. So, physiologically, our brains are completely Different. Like men are from Mars, women are from Venus, if it is, that thing holds true and it is down to the molecular level. So our brains, the limbic brain, for example, which is the emotional and memory hub of our brain a woman's brain In limbic brain is almost double the size of a man's. So we are meant to feel more, we are meant to remember, more we. We are meant to our spidey senses are on, more we. We communicate with both sides of our brains, creative and logic. So we don't just want the facts. So a man Communicates with logic one side of his brain. He just wants the utilitarian, the no touchy-feely. The facts just give it to me. Yep, and let me get out right a to be. Shortest distance, least friction, that's what a man wants. A woman actually wants to hear what they have to say. She wants to create that relationship. She wants a genuine human to interact with and that would feed her both creativity and logic, communication style, as well as her limbic brain. Yeah, so those are the two major physiological differences between men and women that really point To the experience that a woman needs. She needs to feel good about who she's interacting with, not what she's purchasing. The purchase is an afterthought. The journey for her is everything. That experience for her is absolutely everything. So I, when it comes to creating that experience, I always say you know, whether it's dealerships or anybody I'm speaking to is you want to cast your Experience net wide enough so you capture her, because you will not alienate him, because he doesn't care. Yeah, that's a good plan. He doesn't care right, she cares, he doesn't care. Yeah, so if you cast your experience net to, you know I'm not saying, go, design two different experiences, because I get that question all the time I'm like, well, gosh, I got a you know one set for a woman. No, design your experience for her, because he doesn't care, he's gonna buy from you anyways. And if he doesn't like the experience he's getting, he's gonna tell you Okay, just cut to the chase and then you can pivot.

Shan: 13:03

Yeah, it's easier to design it. I mean Exactly.

Katie: 13:07

If you design it for him, you lose her, and that's what we're doing. Wrong in the industry is we're, unfortunately, it's like, still 90% men up the top. We're still 80 ish percent, 85, 87 in there. I mean, depending on what study. You look at men on the sales floor, and so we have a, an experience that's designed by men for men, delivered by men, and so if we're designing it for that man, you're gonna lose that 85 percent. You're gonna lose that 65 percent. Imagine if you design an experience where she felt comfortable and she genuinely felt like you cared about her and her needs. Car sales would, would spike, in my opinion. But it's all backed by science. I mean if she is the world's most influential consumer. She is the chief purchasing officer. Yep, he is not. You know, even if you go all the way back in the day, even when women couldn't vote and women didn't work, the woman of the home told the man what she needed for the home and he went and bought it. So he might have made the money, but she told him how to split it. Yeah, he might have done the transaction Right, it's all that you know, the man is the head and the woman is the neck. You know, you've heard that saying where she tells him where to go. You know, and she's. You know the. She's the original social media. You can imagine back in the olden days where you had, like the, the wood picket fences, and you have a wife. The man's gone to work, the kids are at school and the wives are sitting on either side of the fence and they're talking. They're talking about what they've purchased, they talk about what they like, what they don't like and they influence each other and that's wildfire, because we like to communicate. Communication is the basis of who we are and we like to tell everybody everything about us as much as we can, as as often as we can. So if you really do want to impact, you know we look at referrals and you look at answering the customer experience surveys. Women are the ones answering them, men or not?

Shan: 15:10

Yeah, because men are like oh, I already did the transaction, I'm done now, but women are like let's talk about this experience that I just had.

Katie: 15:18

Exactly, and unfortunately, the experiences are far less positive in the industry than they are negative. The negative and that's what they're experiencing and they'll talk about it.

Kat: 15:27

Yeah, one thing, too, I think you just had me think about was, as we move into such a digital age, a lot of that in-person experience is Naturally being removed, so it's a reminder to dealerships to keep the focus on the experience. How can you still create an experience when everything is online? Because clearly it's it is really important to the female buyer.

Katie: 15:50

Well, here's the thing dealerships are already are already being handed somebody ready to purchase because of that online experience. So she's done all her research is compared every you know. She already knows the make, the model, the price, the color, the financing or leasing off. She knows exactly what she wants. So she's handing herself on a silver platter. Here is a car deal for you. All you have to do is be genuine and create an experience for her. She's going to say yes because she, she chose you out of all the different dealerships.

Kat: 16:22

She's already looked at on. Everyone sells a Honda, everyone sells a Toyota. What makes you know one dealership different from another?

Katie: 16:29

Exactly, and I always say you know to any sales or general manager or anybody that works in a dealership you can throw a pebble and hit another dealership that has the same vehicle as you do, just with a different brand on it. The only differentiator are the people and experience. There's nothing else that differentiates one brand or one dealership from another in an auto mall or anywhere. It is the people, it is the experience, and if you don't get that right, they're going somewhere else.

Shan: 16:59

I think so much of what you're saying, kathleen and I are just nodding, being like yes, thank you. This is exactly it, and I think you know if you simplify it right. We're just asking, like, be nice to people, but so like, let's say, I'm a manager right and I am either hiring for my team or I'm trying to train the team that I have. What should I be focusing on? Because a lot of these managers right Are probably not. They're used to training on the steps to the sale or this is how to close, but I don't know how many dealerships are doing like emotional intelligence training.

Kat: 17:31

You know, that's not absolutely.

Shan: 17:33

Yeah, so like, what would you recommend is the place to start when it comes to that, and like what, even what words Would you put to these traits that you're trying to describe? Going into the process, being genuine.

Katie: 17:44

But you know, and whenever I'm working either with a dealership or dealership group or I'm on stage, you know I always ask permission to be like radically honest and pretty frank, because I'm pretty frank speaker. I tell them sort of this is the way it is. I don't like to tell them, here's just, this is the way it is, yep, um. And so I always say you know who here feels like they can be genuine and genuinely care about the customer in front of them, hands go up. Well, why should I be genuine? I don't know them, I don't care about them, I don't know about their family. So I'll stop them and I'll say look the roof over your head, the lights that are on in your room, the food on your table, little Johnny's, soccer Practices and games Whether here it'd be hockey, maybe it's, you know, a football, whatever it is, your kids close on your back. The only reason why you have that is customers. So if you don't care about your customers, if you can't show genuine concern for your customers, then go get another job, because without them you have none of that. And that's where we need to start. Customers aren't a pain in the butt. They are the reason we survive, and so if we can't show genuine interest in our customers, then we are failing at so many levels. The other thing I always tell management experiential training is really important. So if you there's a study that was done, the age of 16 is when all of our habits are sort of set in stone. After that, in order for our habits to break or us to create new ones, you have to experience an emotional shift. So regular training isn't enough for these adults that are in the dealerships, that are set in their ways. It's just not, and so a lot of the times I'll train. When I train dealerships, I actually take them out of the dealership and I give them assignments. I want them to have experiential training because when they feel different and they feel a different experience, light bulbs go off. When you're asking them to go look at another dealership. Forget about it. You're just telling them to go do another wrong thing, like you can't look within your industry. If you want to create a five star experience, if you want to create an experience of customer man or woman can't live without you need to go outside. The competition in the industry isn't another dealership, it's the experience competition outside. So Amazon, starbucks, nordstrom, even Chick-fil-A.

Shan: 20:01

I was about to say Chick-fil-A. I will drive so much farther to go to Chick-fil-A, yeah.

Katie: 20:06

My pleasure, exactly when they spend their money, that they're leftover money, that they're going to treat themselves to Starbucks coffee or a vacation. Or maybe I took one time I was speaking at a conference and I had a couple clients with me to come see me speak, and so I took them this was on developing a five star experience. I took them to the Ritz Carlton and we had a meal at the Ritz Carlton and these were the leaders and I said, okay, I want you to point out all the steps. I want you to see the difference. I've taught you all of these things, but now I want you to see the match To feel it on your own, yeah. And then I'll have these people come back and say, okay, well, talk to me about what you felt. What did you feel was different? Because that feeling is the delta If you emotionally experience something different, then the light bulbs go off. So if you want them to know how to give a genuine five star experience that women and men can't live without, you've got to put them in an opportunity to be able to experience it. Ritz Carlton has like the best training program and what they do is even down to like the cleaners. They let them go for a week with their family at a Ritz Carlton resort. How can they provide five star experience if they've never received five star experience? They don't know what that difference is. How are they going to? They just they have no clue. So they give them that experience. So I think with dealerships and the industry, we can just do so much more to look outside of us, because if you're looking at the next dealership, you're going to fail every time. You need to look everywhere else that your customers are gathering the way an experience should be and you need to implement that and, if nothing else, just be genuine, because without customers you don't have a business, you don't have food on your table. You don't have a roof over your head. So if you can't take the time to really find a genuine connection with that customer standing in front of you, especially the female consumer, then you shouldn't be even bothering in my opinion.

Kat: 22:09

We know that females want to do business with organizations that they see themselves in. Obviously, the automotive space is predominantly male dominated. If you're a dealership, in your eyes, what can they do to make their workplace culture more female friendly? How do they create a space that can attract more females to work there and in turn, you know, provide a better experience, possibly to the female buyer?

Katie: 22:34

Women are so much more timid when it comes to applying for a position, so the first place you need to start are your job ads and your job descriptions. Women don't want to kill or eat their customers Like you're, not like you know. That is accurate.

Kat: 22:50

You're right, you know, we don't want the next up. We don't want to be killed and eaten. We don't want to kill or eat anybody. Yeah.

Katie: 22:58

Exactly, and so, when you're trying to attract a female, you want to use the right language, because language matters.

Shan: 23:04

Yeah.

Katie: 23:05

You know there's a 60% rule. Women will only well, men will apply if they have 60% of the qualifications, so 6 out of 10. If they feel like, oh, ok, yeah, I'll just go for it, I'll figure out the rest when I get there. Right, exactly, women, it's 100%. So if they're looking at a job ad and it says you have to be aggressive, you have to, you know, close X amount of sales. It's nothing about relationships or creating an experience. They're not going to apply, so just getting them interested in you. It starts with the job ad, the language you use on your websites, because women are emotional creatures. Our limbic brain is double the size of a man's and we communicate with logic and creativity. How you explain what the job position is is extremely important. But then you have to back it up. When, ok, so say, a woman raises her hands, puts in a resume and says, ok, I believe in myself enough that I'm going to come in and actually try this out, well, that person interviewing her has to reflect what that job ad has said and they have to be genuine. You know there's this whole conversation around kids and moms and bell to bell and work. It's actually women will work harder, they will make the arrangements with their caretakers or with their partners If they feel like they're genuinely a needed respected value ad in their workplace. Exactly so it's as a human. They'll make those adjustments as long as they're respected as a woman, as a human. So I own two dealerships with my fiance and we have 60% women, which is awesome. Wow, that's awesome. Our female sales associates. They do have the ability to leave, we understand, so we'll adjust timing with scheduling and shifts. We're not bell to bell. We do shifts but we find that they stay Because they're cared for and they know if they need to go. We've got their back Right. It's not like women need to have this strict schedule to pick up the kids or do whatever they were. I mean, look how much we do in a day. I mean not that men don't, but we juggle a ton and we can get a lot done and so we are willing to do the hard work just the same as a man. But we need to know that we matter, our kids matter, our family matters and if there's an emergency I'm not going to lose my job.

Kat: 25:37

Yeah, it's like that. You've created a safe space where they're not fearful to ask when they need to.

Shan: 25:43

Yeah, that's the security of having that relationship with your employer, so underrated nowadays.

Katie: 25:49

And most times women and men I mean humans won't actually take advantage of it if they know they have it. It's that scarcity mentality that unfortunately lives strong in the automotive space, I mean, as women trying to work their way up. There's a scarcity mentality and I'm sure we'll get into this. But men aren't really the problem in the automotive space. It's actually women that are the problem Because we tend to, as soon as we get a position, we tend to not bring other women up with us, because we work so hard to get that position and we're afraid to lose that position Because there's a scarcity mindset. It's same with just employment in general, I think the dealerships, the general managers. There's a scarcity mindset Because the turnover rate is insane. In automotive it's insane. It's like for every oh the amount of money. So for every employee you lose, it's three months salary yes, the turnover cost. It's not so much money you lose. So if you could just care about your people, you would save so much money from a human resource capital perspective than doing what we're doing, like we have it all backwards. And if we created an employee experience where women and men didn't want to leave, guess what that does to your customer experience? It kind of fixes it in its own way.

Shan: 27:09

Well, and I was even thinking like the reverse of if you focus on your customer experience first, then maybe some of these female employees will start to be just more connected to their work. You know what I mean. Like, oh, the skills that I have are being recognized in our process. Now I see where I fit in, versus I have to conform totally to this process that's already going on, and like that might help with the scarcity mindset too. Right Of just like, oh, I can make a process and an experience for my customers where my limbic system shines, if you will. You know, like and kind of back into it. That way, definitely they feed each other for sure.

Katie: 27:46

Without a doubt, they're 100% connected. The problem with fixing the customer experience and not your culture is eventually this will waver. The customer experience will waver because your culture is unstable. If you don't know why you work there, what you believe in, what you stand for and if you don't have employees that are all backed behind that, eventually the process becomes just that a process and then they care less and actual sustainable change. You might see it for three, four, five months, but then when one employee gets good, decides to leave because the culture is bad, then you've got to bring someone else in and if the culture is bad, you have to train that person to like their customers. I mean, it just unravels.

Kat: 28:27

Yeah, yeah, I think from a you know it makes you think from a hiring perspective, the importance of focusing on finding individuals who are really good at providing the customer experience versus being a good salesperson. Obviously, you know in the past and automotive we promote the best salesperson, but selling can be taught, kind of being the customer experience individual can always be taught.

Katie: 28:52

Who you are as a human is just who you are, and lately who you are Like you've got the liability factor. You either care or you don't. Right Like that's innately who you are. So I always say you want to hire for attitude and train for skill. So you want to hire that person that's going to treat your employees and your customers with the utmost respect and being genuine and provide experience, because everything else can be trained.

Shan: 29:16

Could we talk a little bit about what this looks like on the fixed operation side of the business? Because you know it's one thing, you know when a woman is coming in to buy a car, right. But I also think in every one of those service interactions I mean that can make or break long term a relationship, even if that you had a great, a stellar sales experience, service has more opportunities to either improve that or not. So what if I'm a you know, if I'm a service manager, training my team of advisors? What should I be having them focus on to really maximize every experience if I have a female customer coming through my drive?

Katie: 29:51

Well, let's first off put out there that females make 67% of all service decisions and they make like 90% of all appointments. Oh that checks out. Women are the ones making the appointments right, so they're the ones that are picking up the phone, they're the ones answering the email, they're the ones telling their husbands where to go or getting themselves there right. How I describe service and this might be sound a little nutty, but how I describe it is the car is your baby, your child. Let's imagine your child going in for an operation. So you say goodbye to the child and then it's cloaked right, Like you go behind those honor gurney, behind the doors. The doors close and you don't know what the heck is going on unless the doctor comes out and updates you. So the entire time you're nervous, you're making up all your own stories in your head, all the things that could possibly go wrong. Because we're human and we don't think of all the things that could possibly go right. We think of everything that could go wrong and we worry, and so think about the car going in the doors close. You're sitting in the little waiting room that smells like burnt coffee, that's cold, that's dirty, that doesn't have up to date magazines, and so you're making up all these stories in your head, just waiting to see how much your fix is going to cost you and what you're in for. That's the mentality when anybody, but mostly a woman, goes in for service. I was at a dealership in Corpus last week and I loved it. There was an old woman there and she was sitting in the waiting area. Her car was in and she must have been like 80, okay, a cute little old woman. But there was a service advisor sitting right next to her with the iPad. And it was a woman sitting right next to her with the iPad, explaining everything that was going to happen and how long it was going to take and how much it was going to cost. And the woman just nodded yes, okay, great, very calm. They were both smiling. I wish I could have videotaped it because it was a perfect interaction, because now, when that service advisor leaves, there's no mystery. There's no Oz behind a curtain anymore. She knows exactly what's going to happen, how long it's going to take and what she's going to spend. She also knows that maybe there might be a thing or two that they might find, but they'll quickly come out and let her know. So when it comes to interacting with a woman from a service perspective, communicate Over communicate.

Kat: 32:18

it sounds like absolutely.

Katie: 32:19

Don't let her think that you are the service advisor that is going to just gouge her for all the money and she doesn't trust you because you haven't communicated and it's not communicate. Stand over her while she's sitting down with an iPad, and no, no, it's sit next to her or go lower, like you know. Kneel to the ground and have the iPad while she's sitting, offer her a cup of coffee, offer her even if so. I was once. You know it was such a bad experience, but I was once at a dealership for hours, for hours. I missed lunch. I was starving, I was angry I was angry yeah. You know, have a menu, the customer will pay for their own lunch, but have an option saying, hey, can I come out and get this? Or I mean, what's $20 if you're going to gain, or what's $10 if you're going to gain? You know, $400, $500 RO like is you know. So make sure they're comfortable and communicate.

Kat: 33:14

Yeah, communicate Well. In the absence of communication, people fill in the gaps on their own. You know, like you said, they don't. They don't know what's going on behind the curtain, so over communicating is so key.

Katie: 33:26

If you change anything in the dealership from a service perspective, it's the communication. Women will say yes. Like we want our cars fixed, we want them to be safe. We have children we're driving around or maybe that car we let our kid drive that car, you know, maybe we want it to. We don't want them stuck on the side of the road, we don't want them worrying about AAA or CAA or anything like that. Like we want them to be happy and healthy and safe. So that vehicle needs to be happy, healthy and safe. So we will spend all the money if we can trust you and if you're genuine and you show you care and honestly to the point where. Look, you could do ABCD, this has to be done. But EFG, you could do that in three months. Like, be that honest. If you want to get it done, we highly recommend you do it now. But we could book you in for an appointment and that in two months it would be okay. If it gets done, don't try to gouge them.

Kat: 34:14

Also all up front, yeah, I think too, as an advisor, you get so inundated with the day to day activities you forget exactly what you just mentioned the impact of that vehicle being safe on a consumer's life. I don't think the day to day work you forget that element, the way you're impacting every human who comes through the drive's lives.

Shan: 34:35

I think it's easy to forget, when you're so caught up in your day to day, that this industry does have perception issues that we need to overcome in every interaction. And it's okay to just say it. This doesn't need to be like an unspoken thing. It's like, okay, maybe we do have these issues. Historically, there's been some opportunity. How can I impact that on myself so that I can set myself up for the future?

Katie: 34:59

And if I have permission to be frank, ladies, the industry has a terrible perception, terrible, but what's beautiful about that? They don't have to do much. The bar's low. The bar's so low. Disappointment is expectations not reached right. So think about it. Our customers are coming in with like zero expectations and we tend to disappoint them, which I don't know how, but I'll do Think about that. If they've got next to no expectations of you, the automotive industry has it easier than any other industry to surprise and delight, provide a plus one and, above and beyond, experience that will knock your customers socks off. You know, I mentioned earlier at the beginning just greet them both, maybe greet her first, that's it. That will automatically take down their shield, their guard, a little bit and allow them to just be a little more open. You don't have to do much to create that experience for a customer. It's low hanging fruit.

Kat: 35:59

So, katie, I know in your book you mentioned a story about being blacklisted from a few speaking events. Would you be able to share a little bit about that, Maybe how you overcame it, what you learned?

Katie: 36:09

Yeah for sure. So when I came into the industry as I say on stage all the time, I've never sold a car, I've never worked in the industry, I've done nothing in the industry, but I have been a customer. And so when I came into the industry, I came in through speaking and I looked at all the major automotive events and conferences and I created a topic and a keynote and then I applied and applied and applied and applied. At the beginning, I mean, everyone brought me on. It was incredible. I, every time I applied to speak at a conference, I was speaking at that conference and then I'd gain a dealership or I'd gain an OEM group to go speak at or consult with, and for the first six to eight months I was like I hit gold. This was awesome, until I wasn't striking gold and I was being rejected and I was like I don't understand, this is something everyone wants to hear. Every time I get feedback from men, from men. It's amazing. And I was then deciding, okay, well, I'm obviously hitting my head against a wall. I'm going to go to these conferences as an attendee, I'm going to network a little bit. I had already made some really awesome relationships, a few with females. So I'm going to go with a couple of these people, I'm going to see what's up, I want to see who's speaking, I want to understand, maybe, what I'm doing wrong. What do I need to tailor to get back out there? Well, at one of the conferences I was told by who this woman is one of my favorite people on planet earth and she's one of my best friends, and she told me that I had been blacklisted. So apparently there were four or five women in the speaking circuit that sat on boards that every time my application came through one, it never got to the board because they were in charge of vetting them and they didn't want me speaking because I was young, pretty, I was new to the industry, I didn't. You know, I had to scrape my knees as much as they did, I had to follow my face as much as they did In order to earn the right to have those speaking spots. Well, when I just a dream come true. This was last June or I guess six months ago roughly. I did my first opening keynote at Women in Automotive Conference. I had been driving for five years to get on that stage Five years and it went amazing. I got a standing. Oh, it was incredible. I told this story to the now owners of Women in Automotive, veronica and Gary, and they were just, they couldn't believe it. They're like we're so grateful you even want to be in our conference. Are you kidding me? Like you will bring people to the conference like this is amazing. They're incredible. Incredible humans and not to plug anybody, but any woman out there that works in the industry and you wanna be around women that will lift you up. Go to this conference, Women in Automotive Conference. It's an incredible place to just learn and develop and grow and be inspired and all the things. But it took five years because these ladies thought I needed to.

Kat: 39:23

Go through what they went through.

Katie: 39:25

And I was at this conference that I was speaking at couple days ago. I said to the women how dare you, how dare us? Are you kidding me If you've walked through the ditch and you've scraped your knees pour the damn pavement?

Kat: 39:38

so the next person doesn't Make it better for others, absolutely.

Katie: 39:40

Seriously. You know women need to. I was at a. I get Botox done, whatever. I'm 40, right. So every six months I go for the little pokes and my nurse, she's a doctor, she was excited about my book and she's like give me a few copies. I know a few meeting planners. I'll get it out there, which is the way it should be. I'm paying an absorbent amount of money for it to be poked with needles, but anyways. I'm paying. It's like Katie, I just had a thought and she runs out and she's like why do women pull each other's crowns down over their eyes so they can't see where they're going? And like what a visual A whole bunch of women with these crowns pulled over their eyes stumbling around. We should be just straightening them and saying, like, let me show you the way. So I don't believe, when women talk about raising in any male-dominated space, that it's actually a man's fault. I actually think it's more a female problem than it is a man problem, because I received nothing but incredible open arms from the men of the industry. They wanted to learn, they wanted to change, and I got stopped because of the women in the industry, because of the scarcity mentality, because if I had to work hard, you have to work hard. If I scrape your knees, you have to scrape your knees. If I cried a million tears, you have to cry a million and one. Before you get out of the community To be where I am Right, you can't just come in and say, hey, there's enough space for everybody, let me learn from you. And the crazy thing is no one was speaking about what I was speaking about. So it wasn't even like I was taking somebody else's spot. I was creating my own.

Shan: 41:18

Yeah, that's the part that I think that sometimes can get lost is the scarcity mindset also leads to every opportunity that you could have that could have been mine. When it's like you said, no, no, no, I can create my own opportunity, my own seat. That's unique to me, not just because I'm a woman, that's not why this exists, it's just because I'm me Exactly, and it doesn't take away from anything that you could do on your own.

Katie: 41:42

And yeah, and I say to all the women whenever I speak to them, I'm like super passionate about it. Just show up and be the best and then help someone else show up and be the best, don't worry about. The one thing I said at the Women in Automotive event was stop waiting for the industry to be equal. It's never going to be equal.

Shan: 42:04

And if you're gonna wait and complain.

Katie: 42:05

you're gonna stand still, Meet the industry where it's at and just excel. Just show up. And what's beautiful is that the conversation of equality exists like 10-fold right now. It's on wildfire. Everybody's trying. So our unique traits or data set points or how we're made is really important to people right now. So if you stopped complaining and worrying about equality, I bet you equality would happen.

Shan: 42:32

We would get a lot closer if we, just like you said, you just showed up and Meet the industry where it's at.

Katie: 42:37

So I once was told, six years ago when I started on my speaking, six, seven years ago when I started on my speaking journey and I have a male mentor. He, you know, I was walking out of a Toastmasters meeting and I was November and it was cold. And anyways, he called I get in my car and you can see my breath, it's that cold. But before I could get the car on to warm it up, he called, so I pick it up and he's like Katie, we need to talk. I'm like, oh, okay, what's going on? And you know, he says, well, you don't speak up enough in group settings. I'm like, okay, cool. And he says I think you're too young and pretty to make it in a male dominated space to be taken seriously.

Kat: 43:13

That's a very bold comment, oh man.

Katie: 43:16

Right. But I had a choice in that moment, or in the moment to come, because I totally cried for like an hour afterwards and I felt sorry for myself for a day, you know, but I had a choice to either let that ruin me and believe that, or to do something about it. And it's amazing perception is reality. So his perception was that I'm not gonna be taken seriously because I'm young and pretty. He I mean, he's a man, so I mean, of course he thinks those things because he doesn't know what else I have to offer. So I chose to tailor my experience. I didn't wait for him to meet me where I was. I met him where he was and to this. So I just recorded a podcast with him, I don't know four months ago, talking about my book, and on his podcast he said Katie, I'm just so proud of you. Like you took the feedback, you didn't feel sorry for yourself. You, I'm so proud to know you. And we all, as women, have that opportunity. We can either. We have two choices we see a set of obstacles or a set of opportunities, and it's up to us. We gotta stop blaming other people, period.

Kat: 44:22

Yeah yeah, cause that's not gonna change anything. Katie, on one of our previous episodes, we had a guess that one of her mottos was if not you, then who? Which is exactly exactly what you're saying.

Katie: 44:34

I just think we get in our own way and I think that we can help other women far more readily to get out of their own way, even if it's just a frank conversation. Like I would have loved one of the women that had to work so hard to get where they were that blacklisted me. I would have loved for one of them to come to me and say look, you need to do ABCD to be able to make it where you want to go.

Kat: 44:54

I would have loved that. Yeah, you would have welcomed it absolutely Right.

Katie: 44:57

I would have welcomed it. I would have cried maybe and then welcomed it, but eventually, yeah, I would have dusted my knees off and pulled my big girl panties up and kept going. And we owe it to each other to have those frank conversations. That's where growth happens. But a lot of the time we hide it, we talk behind each other's backs, we want to push them down, we blacklist people Like it's insane. It's just insane. So I think we'd get a heck of a lot closer, we'd close that diversity gap a lot sooner, if we started walking towards it, versus planting our feet firmly and expecting the industry to walk towards us.

Shan: 45:33

I'm really appreciative of this because I do think this is part of that honesty piece of just like you said, this conversation happens a lot, but it doesn't happen with this directness of like, hey, woman to woman, this is what's going on on our side of the equation. So I'm sure this will help a lot of people just level set of where we can go forward and how that starts with.

Katie: 45:53

just it's not personal, let's just keep going Well and that's why men make it by the way, because they don't make it personal. Okay, like you talk about. Go back to the science of how we're built. Even though a woman who's worked in the industry to get where they wanna go has taken on male traits, she's still a woman. Okay, like, she still has double sized Olympic brain, she still communicates with both sides of the brain. She might have dimmed light on some of those things to try to fit in, but at the end of the day, we do make things personal, we get catty, we get emotional, and what men do or don't do is that If a man doesn't like the way another man's acted, they'll tell them. And then the next day you go, you're over it and they move on. When a woman women to women they hold a grudge for years and years and years, I joke on stage and I say okay, gentlemen, anyone who has a wife, a daughter, a mother, a sister, any woman in their life that remembers a fight from five years ago in grave detail, it's because she's physiologically wired to be that way. Now I'm not saying women need to change who they are, but they should be cognizant of who they are and realize that maybe we make mountains out of Mohills sometimes and maybe we don't need to do that, and so we can manage our emotions and manage our limbic system. In order to make those steps forward. We don't have to be more like men, because I don't think we need more men in the world. I think we need more women in the world and I think women need to show up as authentically who they are, and I mean Adam and Eve were put on this earth for a reason, right, man and woman with different sets for a reason. But sometimes and men do it too they could be a little bit more emotional. You know, they don't have to be as logical. We can teach me.

Kat: 47:34

Yeah, we can meet in the middle.

Katie: 47:35

A little bit of exactly Manage our you know, physiological differences better, so that we can all succeed.

Kat: 47:42

Absolutely so, katie. We have two final questions, the first being how can people find you information about your book? How can we, yeah, get that information out there?

Katie: 47:53

Book is on Amazon. I'm hoping the audiobook. We've had a glitch and so I'm hoping it's up there now. I have to check. It's been a while, but it is like on Barnes, Noble and any of the major audio site Apple, the audio book is available. Yeah, all the things. It's just not on Amazon. But Amazon is the easiest way to get the book. You can go in, it is in Barnes, noble stores across the country, but I mean, amazon is click a button, super easy. And in terms of just me, I'm not super active on LinkedIn, I'm not super active on Facebook, I'm not. I should be more socially active. But Instagram, if you want to know all about me and where I'm going and what I'm doing, that's where I'm at. So I'm very much authentically me on Instagram and so if you follow me, you're going to know the good, the bad, the ugly, the pretty, all of it in between, because that's what I believe in being, and so that's where I would go. And, honestly, you can reach out to me, direct message me. I answer every direct message. Okay, awesome. So if you're a woman in the industry and you have a question, message me, I will answer you. If you're a man in the industry or a general manager or anybody that needs the help, you can email me, katie, at katiemarrowscom. You can direct message me, I will answer. And then there's my website katiemarrowscom.

Kat: 49:10

Perfect, okay, katie. We have one more question, shannon.

Shan: 49:14

Well, and I'm really excited to hear your answer because you are the experience expert and I think this is such a crucial part of an experience. But okay, so in your perfect world, if you're designing, like your customer, waiting lounge at your dealership, what tell us about that? But, most importantly, the snacks. What snacks are we working with?

Kat: 49:34

What are we?

Katie: 49:35

offering.

Shan: 49:36

In Katie's waiting room.

Katie: 49:37

All right. Well, women want a hedonic experience, which is an experience of senses. So men like utilitarian, very easy, you know A to B, no friction. Women want a hedonic experience. So the smell, the lighting the temperature, all of your senses. They want everything to be tickled a little bit. They need that whole experience. So in a waiting room, I mean lighting is everything. I hate fluorescent lights Like I hate them. And you can hate them and you look bad in them and you don't want to be like. Nowadays, unfortunately, we're all taking selfies where we're going. So I would usually a waiting room is like where the windows are and you're in a corner and it's really bright lights and there's bright fluorescent lights. I would have shades that come down, so that's a little softer, okay, and I would do a kitty corner couch and I would do couches and make it super loungy, because women want to feel comfortable. I would also do a cute little carpet. I would do, you know, a really cute little coffee table and coffee table sort of on either side of the couches, so they can.

Kat: 50:42

This is already sounding cuter than my apartment.

Katie: 50:47

Actually I'm building a house right now. It's crazy a little apartment. So if you follow my stories on Instagram you'll see I've gone going 4,000 square feet to 1,000 square feet. It's crazy, but anyway. And I would do up to date magazines, but I'd also do like books. You know there's also these really cool Internet iLibraries you can like scan QR codes and then kind of take that book out on your phone, so like something like that would be really cool. If you have kids, it would be awesome to have kitty kid books there as well. Yes, flowers, white flowers, not highly scented and, believe it or not, do not do paper cups. I do China mugs Like create a really. True experience, true experience Dealerships often get cold, so I would have a basket of blankets to keep you warm. And then, from a snack perspective oh, I mean I do fresh fruit I would do something that's not, that's going to keep them even keeled. I wouldn't do sugary snacks, I would do something that says, hey, we care about you, we care about your health. So fresh fruit and maybe even little like to go salads or something.

Kat: 51:52

I'm going to come service here and then hang out here all day, exactly, but that's the thing you want to hang out. You want them to stay a while because they will be staying a while probably.

Katie: 52:02

Then they're also going to want to come back and experience again, to look at new vehicles, like they're going to eat. You want them to want to be there and they're. You know. You want to break the script. That's one thing in my bio on my website I talk about the birthday fairy, and so when my twins were born, I wanted to do something that was going to really like every year, break the script for them so they they'd remember it. And on their first birthday, you know, they put them to bed the night before and I cooked, baked the cookies that they loved and I decorated the whole you know main level and I put their birthday gifts out. So the next morning when they came down, they were like, and I called it the birthday fairy and every year, even now, they know the birthday fairies me now, but they wait for it and now my sister does it with her kids and it's just, life is so monotonous and we go through, we just go through, and when you can break a script and provide an experience that is unexpected, it sticks out in your customers minds and really there's not much of a cost difference between the junkie candy and the burnt coffee that you're serving versus a curing machine or a or an espresso machine and a China cup and some fruit Like there's. You know we bake cookie. If you're going to give cookies, bake them so that the smell is there. Women like that homemade smell. So it's just like little things and really people think cost, cost, cost. They're cutting cost. But there is, you're already doing it. It's not that much more to break the script and actually you're going to gain so much more because you can gain loyalty of your customer. Your customer is going to talk about that, by the way, and other people are going to want to experience that. And that's what the difference is between a Starbucks and Tim. I'm in Canada but in a Tim Hortons or a Dunkin Donuts you know what I mean Like that's, if they serve the same thing, it's roughly the same price, because even if you go to a Dunkin Donuts, you're if you want a lot to, they have all the things now, right, you're, you're paying the same price. But they know your name at Starbucks and they smile and they greet you when you walk in and if your drink is made wrong, you don't feel bad about asking them to remake it. And it's exact same coffee experience. It costs the exact same money for the industry like standard, but you're going to choose a Starbucks over a Dunkin Donuts every time, or a Chick-fil-A and a McDonald's. My pleasure costs nothing versus the grumpy teenager that just hands you your food. There's no cost difference, but they break the script in the fast food industry. So I would challenge the automotive industry to break the script when it comes to experience.

Kat: 54:38

Because it is. It is low hanging fruit. It's such simple little things that make the difference Absolutely. Well, that was a great answer. Again, I will be servicing and hanging out at your dealership. Yes, Well, awesome.

Shan: 54:51

Like we said, make sure to check out Katie's book, follow her on all the socials for all that fun stuff. Katie, this conversation covered so many topics. I'm so glad that we were able to kind of tap your brain on all your subject matters.

Katie: 55:03

My pleasure. Thank you for having me on. This was awesome and it's totally what I needed on a groggy Monday, so I'm really, really happy.

Shan: 55:10

Thank you so much. Wow, okay, what a conversation with Katie. So many topics that I think we could have spent an hour on all of them. So much to debrief, kathleen. Do you want to start with one of your biggest takeaways, one?

Kat: 55:23

of my favorite moments was when Katie made the comparison between taking care of your vehicle and the way a mother cares for her child. I think it was a really great analogy, because in so many ways it's true. Just as mothers are incredibly concerned with the safety and the well-being of their children, they also care about the safety and reliability of their car. So you know, women play this vital role in making decisions about vehicle maintenance and vehicle repair.

Shan: 55:49

Yeah, and I think one thing that Katie really helped me do was understand how the mindset of how women view owning a car explains why communication is so important. So I mean we see it all the time in customer feedback that one of the main ways that dealerships can, you know, get quote unquote, a bad survey is if the customer feels like they don't know what's going on or they're not being updated. And I think Katie really highlights why, for women, that's so important and some of the psychology behind that. Right, Like women we know, women tend to be excellent communicators and they want to ask questions about their cars. So making sure your service experience is creating an environment where a woman feels comfortable to ask those questions is just so hugely important.

Kat: 56:34

Absolutely and I think, to put it simply, over communicate. Something else I also loved was at the end. Katie brought it full circle and gave us some advice woman to woman. I loved her black listing story. Thought it was, thought it was a really great message.

Shan: 56:47

I'm so happy that she was able to share that story from the book and for all of our female listeners out there, it's just such a good reminder of that. A rising tide truly raises all ships and I feel like it's mentioned time and time and again, but like the importance of lifting each other up and being supportive, especially when people are out there creating their own opportunities. And, of course, it's my favorite Q tip quit taking it personally.

Kat: 57:14

Yes, it always comes back to Q tip. What a great full circle episode.

Shan: 57:20

So be sure to lift this episode up by sharing with your friends and, as always, people can find us on our Instagram at get in her lane or on our website, getinherlanecom. Until next time.